Why does Google Maps on phone require access to my contacts to load an offline map

Bob F

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Jul 6, 2021, 2:10:07 PM7/6/21

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I had maps loaded, they went away. Now, to load a map again, it stops
the program if I say no to "Allow access to your contacts".

Why should it require my contacts?

Samsung S5

paul

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Jul 6, 2021, 2:49:07 PM7/6/21

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Bob F wrote on 06.07.2021 14:10

I have a Samsung on Android 11 which I checked for Google Maps' permissions.
Android11Settings > Apps > Your apps > Maps > Permissions >
Location = Only while app is in use
Camera = Denied
*Contacts = Denied*
Microphone = Denied
Physical activity = Denied
Storage = Denied
Remove permissions if app isn't used = on

At the top right I hit the 3dots and then "all permissions" which showed
details _if_ the permissions were allowed (mine weren't allowed) which are
*read your contacts*
Allows the app to read data about your contacts stored on your phone.
Apps will also have access to the accounts on your phone that have created
contacts. This may include accounts created by apps you have installed.
This permission allows apps to save your contact data, and malicious apps
may share contact data without your knowledge.

Seems to me a few things we can infer from your situation and mine.
1. Google Maps _does_ attempt to access your contacts (your experience)
2. Google Maps works just fine if you _deny_ that access (my experience)

My recommendation?
Deny all access save for location while the Maps app is in use.

Also never (ever!) start Location from the Google Maps prompt.
Always start location _outside_ of the Google Maps app itself!!!!!
(Google is sneaky in that they turn on other stuff from that prompt!)

paul

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Jul 6, 2021, 3:02:52 PM7/6/21

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paul wrote on 06.07.2021 20:49

> Seems to me a few things we can infer from your situation and mine.
> 1. Google Maps _does_ attempt to access your contacts (your experience)
> 2. Google Maps works just fine if you _deny_ that access (my experience)

I should clarify my experience by saying I do not set my Android operating
system to a Google Account so when I start up Google Maps, it doesn't know
who I am per se and it works just fine for routing & traffic & online maps.

In my case, I don't _save_ Google Maps (because I use offline maps instead,
where I use Google Maps mainly for accurate address lookup, and sometimes
for traffic, although there are many just-as-good-or-better government &
private sources of real-time traffic nowadays, such as 511.org & sigalert.

Once I have an accurate address lookup, _any_ map program will route me,
which keeps my real-time location (& contacts) out of Google's greedy paws.

In your case, Google Maps probably knows who you are so we need to ask
someone else (who has a Google Account set on the phone) if they can use
Google Maps without providing Google Maps with access to their contacts.

To test this out further for you, I just tried to _save_ a Google Map from
the Google Map app, and it wouldn't let me without creating a new account.

As for the answer to your question of _why_ Google Maps wants to upload your
contacts, bear in mind you can't stop the GMail app from doing the same
thing (I tried anyway, and failed, so I stopped using the Gmail app).

I suspect the answer is Google wants your contacts so badly they'll force
you to give them to them even though, if you use GMail, Google _already_ has
them all, but I don't know why Google Maps, per se, needs contacts to work.

BTW, it's easy to set up your phone _without_ contacts, which we've
discussed in gory detail in the past, since only a few apps need contacts.

If you choose those few apps wisely (e.g., your dialer & SMS & calendar
apps), then those apps will import any csv/vcard file you feed them.

That's what I do. It works fine for me. It's designed for privacy.
a. I wipe out the sqlite default Android contacts database
b. That way, any app that tries to get my contacts, gets nothing
c. Then I set as my default only apps that import contacts on their own

But my setup isn't typical as I use an intelligent design.
So others will have to test for you if Google Maps works without contacts.

VanguardLH

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Jul 6, 2021, 5:12:07 PM7/6/21

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Google Maps can show your contacts on a map. I would think that would
only be possible if the contacts have addresses. I have some contacts
that are just phone number and e-mail address, no postal address.

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3131570

Showing your Google Contacts in Google Maps was added back in 2016; see:

https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/27/google-maps-v9-25-1-adds-batch-photo-submission-puts-contact-addresses-in-your-places-and-gives-suggested-searches-on-location-pages-apk-download/

To not show that correlated info, I think you have to go into your
Google account to disable Web & App Activity.

paul

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Jul 6, 2021, 9:32:53 PM7/6/21

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VanguardLH wrote on 06.07.2021 21:12

> Google Maps can show your contacts on a map.

Thanks for finding that as I was wondering why ever since the OP asked.
It's wonderful when adults add value to the technical topics on this ng.

> https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3131570
"You can't add or hide contacts on the map using your computer."

> Showing your Google Contacts in Google Maps was added back in 2016; see:
> https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/27/google-maps-v9-25-1-adds-batch-photo-submission-puts-contact-addresses-in-your-places-and-gives-suggested-searches-on-location-pages-apk-download/

Interesting.
Thanks for adding value to the topic, which is what we're here for.

"Contact addresses appear in Your places screen and on maps."
<https://www.androidpolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/nexus2cee_2016-04-27-11.16.52-1.png>

> To not show that correlated info, I think you have to go into your
> Google account to disable Web & App Activity.

"Web and App Activity must be turned on for Google Maps
to show your contacts in search results."
<https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/54068>

Thanks for that update as I don't use the default contacts sqlite database,
nor do I have a google account set up on my phone, so I could only guess at
why Google would have wanted access to your contacts in the Maps app.

BTW, to add further value, I tried to downgrade my Google Maps app to the
original version, which, for Android 11 on my Samsung is version 10.57.1.

This means you can't even downgrade your way out of this 'feature' if you
have a relatively new phone (mine is only a couple of months old).

Bob F

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Jul 6, 2021, 10:31:17 PM7/6/21

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On 7/6/2021 12:03 PM, paul wrote:
> paul wrote on 06.07.2021 20:49
>> Seems to me a few things we can infer from your situation and mine.
>> 1. Google Maps _does_ attempt to access your contacts (your experience)
>> 2. Google Maps works just fine if you _deny_ that access (my experience)

I enabled it to access my contacts, and I still cannot load offline
maps. It is now asking me to login to google maps. It never did that before.

>
> I should clarify my experience by saying I do not set my Android operating
> system to a Google Account so when I start up Google Maps, it doesn't know
> who I am per se and it works just fine for routing & traffic & online maps.

Me either. I use k9 for my email, and have no accounts in Gmail or Email
apps built into Android 6 installed.

>
> In my case, I don't _save_ Google Maps (because I use offline maps instead,
> where I use Google Maps mainly for accurate address lookup, and sometimes
> for traffic, although there are many just-as-good-or-better government &
> private sources of real-time traffic nowadays, such as 511.org & sigalert.

Are those mapping apps? They seem to be local to N. CA

>
> Once I have an accurate address lookup, _any_ map program will route me,
> which keeps my real-time location (& contacts) out of Google's greedy paws.

Can you recommend map programs? I tried a few in the past with very poor
results.

>
> In your case, Google Maps probably knows who you are so we need to ask
> someone else (who has a Google Account set on the phone) if they can use
> Google Maps without providing Google Maps with access to their contacts.

It claims I have to login. What does it mean? It gives me a box say
"sign in to download offline areas". If I tap Sign in, It goes to a box
saying + add account. If I click that the box goes away leaving the
previous page.

>
> To test this out further for you, I just tried to _save_ a Google Map from
> the Google Map app, and it wouldn't let me without creating a new account.
>
> As for the answer to your question of _why_ Google Maps wants to upload your
> contacts, bear in mind you can't stop the GMail app from doing the same
> thing (I tried anyway, and failed, so I stopped using the Gmail app).

I have not used it for a couple of phone replacements.

>
> I suspect the answer is Google wants your contacts so badly they'll force
> you to give them to them even though, if you use GMail, Google _already_ has
> them all, but I don't know why Google Maps, per se, needs contacts to work.
>
> BTW, it's easy to set up your phone _without_ contacts, which we've
> discussed in gory detail in the past, since only a few apps need contacts.
>
> If you choose those few apps wisely (e.g., your dialer & SMS & calendar
> apps), then those apps will import any csv/vcard file you feed them.
>
> That's what I do. It works fine for me. It's designed for privacy.
> a. I wipe out the sqlite default Android contacts database
> b. That way, any app that tries to get my contacts, gets nothing
> c. Then I set as my default only apps that import contacts on their own
>
> But my setup isn't typical as I use an intelligent design.
> So others will have to test for you if Google Maps works without contacts.
>

If you can recommend a better mapping app, I would appreciate it.

Bob F

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Jul 6, 2021, 10:38:05 PM7/6/21

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On 7/6/2021 2:12 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had maps loaded, they went away. Now, to load a map again, it stops
>> the program if I say no to "Allow access to your contacts".
>>
>> Why should it require my contacts?
>>
>> Samsung S5
>
> Google Maps can show your contacts on a map. I would think that would
> only be possible if the contacts have addresses. I have some contacts
> that are just phone number and e-mail address, no postal address.

Virtually all of mine are that way.

>
> https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3131570
>
> Showing your Google Contacts in Google Maps was added back in 2016; see:
>
> https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/27/google-maps-v9-25-1-adds-batch-photo-submission-puts-contact-addresses-in-your-places-and-gives-suggested-searches-on-location-pages-apk-download/

I've never seen it.

paul

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Jul 6, 2021, 11:21:50 PM7/6/21

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Bob F wrote on 06.07.2021 22:31

> I enabled it to access my contacts, and I still cannot load offline
> maps. It is now asking me to login to google maps. It never did that before.

Thank you for that additional information as we all help each other to
figure out what's really going on here.

Each of us tries to add value (save for the trolls like Carlos who can't).

I can tell you that, over the years, the Android Google Maps app has
vacillated between _requiring_ a login just to work, and not, and also
between requiring a login just to save maps, and not.

So I believe your datapoint of a login being required to load/save offline
maps.

>> I should clarify my experience by saying I do not set my Android operating
>> system to a Google Account so when I start up Google Maps, it doesn't know
>> who I am per se and it works just fine for routing & traffic & online maps.
>
> Me either. I use k9 for my email, and have no accounts in Gmail or Email
> apps built into Android 6 installed.

Oh. I'm surprised. Most people, as you know, blindly set Android to a Google
Account (seemingly without even thinking of the privacy consequences).

As I said above, sometimes the Android Google Maps has required a login just
to work or just to save maps, and sometimes it doesn't. It's up to Google.

>> In my case, I don't _save_ Google Maps (because I use offline maps instead,
>> where I use Google Maps mainly for accurate address lookup, and sometimes
>> for traffic, although there are many just-as-good-or-better government &
>> private sources of real-time traffic nowadays, such as 511.org & sigalert.
>
> Are those mapping apps? They seem to be local to N. CA

What Google Maps is great for is accurate address lookup, right?
No other map I've ever tested has as accurate an address lookup.
So _that_ is what I use Google Maps for (although you can do the _same_ with
any web browser set to the location of your choice in "maps.google.com").

With either method (the Maps app or a web browser set to maps.google.com),
once you have an accurate set of coordinates to any address, you can ditch
Google Maps to use any offline map application (of which there are plenty).

It used to be that you didn't even need Google Maps initially for the
address lookup, but Google killed the wonderful "addressToGps" app long ago.

Once you have the address, what else does Google Maps provide you?
Traffic, right?

Well, it turns out _plenty_ of local resources provide online traffic.
Last I looked, it seemed almost everywhere they had local traffic maps.

We have an entire thread on this, so my point is that it is _not_ local to
just me; these traffic apps abound (there must be thousands of them).

You just need to find one for wherever it is you are driving.

>> Once I have an accurate address lookup, _any_ map program will route me,
>> which keeps my real-time location (& contacts) out of Google's greedy paws.
>
> Can you recommend map programs? I tried a few in the past with very poor
> results.

I've written in the past entire reviews of all the possible free maps apps
for Android and for iOS. They're all different. So preferences vary.

Personally, the two I use the most are OSMAnd~ (not OSMAnd+) & Navigator.
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator

I noticed that this recent version of Navigator has ads so you might want to
find an older version (which is why I advise everyone to automatically save
_all_ your app APKs at the very time you download them off of Google Play!).

>> In your case, Google Maps probably knows who you are so we need to ask
>> someone else (who has a Google Account set on the phone) if they can use
>> Google Maps without providing Google Maps with access to their contacts.
>
> It claims I have to login. What does it mean? It gives me a box say
> "sign in to download offline areas". If I tap Sign in, It goes to a box
> saying + add account. If I click that the box goes away leaving the
> previous page.

As I said, sometimes the Google Maps app _requires_ a download just to work,
and sometimes it requires a download just to save offline maps. At this
time, in my tests anyway, the Google Maps app did _not_ require a login to
work, but it did require a login to save offline maps.

Luckily, offline maps aren't all that useful (IMHO) in the Google Maps app
since you can use any set of free offline maps which are just as good for
the purpose of routing to any known set of coordinates.

What Google Maps is excellent at, IMHO, is obtaining that set of coordinates
from just any old address anywhere in the world. But once you have those
coordinates pasted into your clipboard, you don't need Google Maps except
for traffic (which, as I noted, you can get by thousands of other free
apps).

>> To test this out further for you, I just tried to _save_ a Google Map from
>> the Google Map app, and it wouldn't let me without creating a new account.
>>
>> As for the answer to your question of _why_ Google Maps wants to upload your
>> contacts, bear in mind you can't stop the GMail app from doing the same
>> thing (I tried anyway, and failed, so I stopped using the Gmail app).
>
> I have not used it for a couple of phone replacements.

>> But my setup isn't typical as I use an intelligent design.
>> So others will have to test for you if Google Maps works without contacts.
>>
>
> If you can recommend a better mapping app, I would appreciate it.

I mostly use an older ad-free version of MapFactor Navigator.

However, many people recommend OSMAnd~ which you can find on F-Droid.
It's almost exactly the same as the OSMAnd+ on Google Play.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/43g_mwUy964

I have tested them all, and those are the two I like best,
but I admit _many_ offline map apps work almost as well as those do.
https://techviral.net/best-offline-gps-navigation-apps/
https://techigem.com/offline-maps-apps/
https://thedroidguy.com/best-offline-gps-map-apps-for-android-1079555
https://www.nextpit.com/best-free-offline-map-apps
https://www.geckoandfly.com/24490/offline-gps-navigation-apps-driving/
etc.

In summary, I'm happy that you are adding value to Usenet, which is what we
all, as intelligent adults, should be striving to add in every post.

VanguardLH

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Jul 7, 2021, 12:01:03 AM7/7/21

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You said your offline maps "went away". Does that mean you deleted
them, or they expired? If they just expired, you cannot update them?

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6291838/
...
2. Make sure you're connected to the internet and signed in to Google
Maps.
...

You would need a Google account to sign-in. I can see Google's view
that they want to provide offline maps to their users, not to everyone
even if not a Google user. Downloads cost money in bandwidth and
server-side service processing. Why should they provide those resources
to those who are not their users?

I can see Google requiring a Google account for someone to use their
service when using Google's app. The Here WeGo map app doesn't require
a Google account, because they do NOT use Google's services and
bandwidth to download map data either on-demand or for offline maps.
Here was Nokia's HERE Maps, the same source used by head units in cars.
Map data comes from HERE, not Google.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_WeGo

Whosever maps services, bandwidth, and database you use is who's rule
you have to follow. Google wants Google users to use Google's services,
and Google users are identified via accounts. HERE doesn't require
accounts, but they could change their requirements whenever they like.
TomTom requires a subscription beyond the limited 50 miles/month quota
(which don't rollover unused miles into the next month, so they expire
at the end of the month). Their service, their resources, their rules,
and they can change their rules whenever they want (usually declared in
their Terms of Service policies).

Don't use the Google Maps apps if you don't like Google's requirements
or the behavior of their map app. While I do use the Google Maps app, I
also use the HERE maps app which lets me download offline map data by
region (city, state, country) rather than have me use their online
service to define a region and then download the map data for the
user-specified region. I have an SD card, so that is where I store the
offline map data for both map apps. I like HERE's regional boundaries
for offline maps since I could easily travel outside the user-specified
region in the Google Maps app. HERE's offline maps can cover far larger
areas than what Google lets you pre-select.

paul

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Jul 7, 2021, 12:27:19 AM7/7/21

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VanguardLH wrote on 07.07.2021 06:01

> While I do use the Google Maps app, I
> also use the HERE maps app which lets me download offline map data

I mostly use an older ad-free version of MapFactor Navigator.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator

However, many people recommend OSMAnd~ which you can find on F-Droid.

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/

F-Droid OSMAnd~ is almost exactly the same as the OSMAnd+ on Google Play.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/43g_mwUy964

I have tested them all, and those are the two I like best,
but I admit _many_ offline map apps work almost as well as those do.

VanguardLH

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Jul 7, 2021, 9:11:47 AM7/7/21

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paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote

>
>> While I do use the Google Maps app, I also use the HERE maps app
>> which lets me download offline map data
>
> I mostly use an older ad-free version of MapFactor Navigator.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator
>
> However, many people recommend OSMAnd~ which you can find on F-Droid.
> https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/

There are map apps that use OpenStreet (https://www.openstreetmap.org/)
map database; however, that is a peer community updating the database,
so it is inaccurate. Updates depend on someone using an OpenStreet map
app, and issuing updates, so the user would have to be motivated to
issue an update, be in a position to send an update (so, like, not when
they're driving a car), and be accurate. However, most map app users
are just users, not database maintainers.

Osmand is one of those map apps using OpenStreet map data, so I'd
probably not trust it. I've seen areas, even in cities, that don't get
updated for many years just because no one using the OpenStreet map app
bothers to issue updates, and there were changes in those several years
from the last update.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Is_OSM_up-to-date
Answer: No. Too many areas never or rarely get updated by the users.
Typically the satellite images are over 5 years old.

I remember when trialing an OpenStreets map app (don't remember the
name) that it still reported a library was in its old location despite
the library moved a mile away 3 years before. It showed businesses that
had closed several years before. Yeah, I could've issued updates for
every inaccuracy that I found, but I wasn't so inclined at the time,
plus I'd be issuing more updates than in using their map data. And I
cannot do anything about their delays and inability to have revenue to
get recent satellite images.

No thanks to community-driven map data. Imagine the chaos with
community-driven anti-virus software. Those web browser add-ons that
show site rankings (SiteAdvisor) are worthless, because they rating less
than 1% of the registered and sited domains, are susceptible to boobs or
those invested in vendettas against a site, and are out of date (despite
a site went "good", they are listed as "bad" for many months or years
later).

> ...
> 2. Maps.ME
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapswithme.maps.pro

Adware (contains ads). Another OpenStreet map app. No thanks.

> 3. MapFactor Navigator
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator

Adware (contains ads, offers in-app purchases).

> 4. Here WeGo
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.maps

Adware (contains ads, but I've not seen any). They have their own map
data. Not Google map data. Not OpenStreet "community" map data.

<didn't bother to check the rest in your list as to which use whose map
database, and if adware or not>

paul

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Jul 7, 2021, 12:12:14 PM7/7/21

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VanguardLH wrote on 07.07.2021 15:11

> There are map apps that use OpenStreet (https://www.openstreetmap.org/)
> map database; however, that is a peer community updating the database,
> so it is inaccurate.

Thank you for adding your point of view to this dicussion as I am learning a
lot from you and from those others who strive to add value to discussions).

We should strive to make a point that all maps are inherently "inaccurate."
Never has a map _ever_ been made which has _not_ been "inaccurate" somehow.
<https://maps.usgs.gov/map/>

What you mean, most likely is that the Google Maps are more accurate than
OSM maps are. And that's almost certainly true in my humblest of opinions.

But, given _all_ maps are inaccurate - what matters is this question only:
Q: Are they accurate enough?

I've used _every_ free offline map program Vanguard. Every single one.
(I've written about it _many_ times so this is simply empirical evidence.)

In my humblest of opinions, for the areas I drive, the OSM maps are accurate
enough for paved roads (as backcountry is a completely different story.)
<https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps/topo-maps>
<https://osmand.net/features/online-maps-plugin>

> Updates depend on someone using an OpenStreet map
> app, and issuing updates, so the user would have to be motivated to
> issue an update, be in a position to send an update (so, like, not when
> they're driving a car), and be accurate. However, most map app users
> are just users, not database maintainers.

True. I've been able to get Google to update their maps, and, in fact, I
wrote about my experience in the past, where, as I recall, it took Google
only about a month to fix the Google Map errors I had provided them.

It all had to be done over the web though as you'll never get them on the
phone (ask me how I know this, and bear in mind, I'm persistent).

I've never even bothered to fix the OSM maps, and, in fact, there's a
certain minor but obvious error in my area that I always zoom into whenever
I'm testing any map program where I can tell, from the existence of that
error, that they're using the OSM maps.

> Osmand is one of those map apps using OpenStreet map data, so I'd
> probably not trust it. I've seen areas, even in cities, that don't get
> updated for many years just because no one using the OpenStreet map app
> bothers to issue updates, and there were changes in those several years
> from the last update.

It's good that you're bringing out your point of view so we can learn.

You are stating facts that I don't think anyone would disagree with.
I think most of us would agree that Google Map accuracy is fantastic.

For you, in the areas you care about, OSM accuracy isn't good enough.
For me, in the areas I care about, OSM accuracy is good enough (for me).

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Is_OSM_up-to-date
> Answer: No. Too many areas never or rarely get updated by the users.
> Typically the satellite images are over 5 years old.

Again, it's good to get your point of view which is different in some ways.

For me, deep in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, and for me, in the
Silicon Valley and San Francisco Bay Area, the OSM map accuracy, even if it
were truly five years old, is "good enough" accuracy for what I need it for.

Apparently for you, OSM map accuracy is _not_ good enough and that's OK.
Trust me, I know the lack of accuracy on OSM topographical maps, which is
why the use model is important for what you're intending to use OSM maps
for.

For me, I use mostly the ad-free version of MapFactor Navigator, which, as I
recall, uses a variety of map sources (e.g., Tom Tom Maps or OSM maps).

I have the showing of the data selection turned off by default, but you can
select either Tom Tom Commercial Data or OSM Maps upon startup for example.

> I remember when trialing an OpenStreets map app (don't remember the
> name) that it still reported a library was in its old location despite
> the library moved a mile away 3 years before. It showed businesses that
> had closed several years before.

Oh. Now you're talking something else altogether than roadway locations!

Yes. Indeed. The POI database of most of the non-Google maps sucks by way of
comparison to Google Maps' POI. There's absolutely no comparison possible.

That's why I said the address lookup of Google Maps was the cat's meow.
The POI lookup for Google Maps just kills almost _every_ other map database.

There's a _reason_ I said my use model is to use the POI of Google Maps
(either via the web browser shortcut in my maps folder, or Google Maps), and
then I use the coordinates of that lookup result in the offline street maps.

> Yeah, I could've issued updates for
> every inaccuracy that I found, but I wasn't so inclined at the time,
> plus I'd be issuing more updates than in using their map data. And I
> cannot do anything about their delays and inability to have revenue to
> get recent satellite images.

Again, your point of view is useful, and perfectly valid, IMHO.

You'd go nuts trying to update the POI databases of the offline free maps.
There's no doubt that the Google Maps POI database is simply fantastic.

I used to use Garmin's (I had them all over time), and it shocked me that
even the first Google Maps updates were far better than the Garmins were.

It's just amazing how _good_ Google POIs are compared to the others.

> No thanks to community-driven map data. Imagine the chaos with
> community-driven anti-virus software. Those web browser add-ons that
> show site rankings (SiteAdvisor) are worthless, because they rating less
> than 1% of the registered and sited domains, are susceptible to boobs or
> those invested in vendettas against a site, and are out of date (despite
> a site went "good", they are listed as "bad" for many months or years
> later).

Your use model is different than my use model where both have their place.
I aim for privacy. You aim for POI accuracy.
I also aim for backcountry accuracy (where USGS maps are the cat's meow).
<https://apps.nationalmap.gov/downloader/#/>

For example, I _love_ the historical series of the USGS backcountry maps.
There's a reason different maps serve different people's purposes.

>> ...
>> 2. Maps.ME
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapswithme.maps.pro
>
> Adware (contains ads). Another OpenStreet map app. No thanks.

Agree. I don't remember my test conclusion but you won't see it on my phone.

>> 3. MapFactor Navigator
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator
>
> Adware (contains ads, offers in-app purchases).

The older versions were not adware. I use the older versions.
They work just fine.

>> 4. Here WeGo
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.maps
>
> Adware (contains ads, but I've not seen any). They have their own map
> data. Not Google map data. Not OpenStreet "community" map data.
>
> <didn't bother to check the rest in your list as to which use whose map
> database, and if adware or not>

Note that I ran an _extensive_ test of _all_ the free offline maps on both
iOS and Android years ago, which we could dig up, but I'm not disagreeing
with your point of view.

If I may summarize your point of view (for you to correct), it's this...
1. Google Maps has an accurate enough road & POI database
2. OSM maps do not have an accurate enough road & POI database

Is that a valid summary of your point of view?
(Please correct where I err as the whole point of Usenet is to learn from
each other and to provide value that everyone else can benefit from.)

Mine is slightly different even as I agree with your Google accuracy POV.
3. Google Maps aren't private enough for me to use except only when needed
4. I use Google Maps for POI lookups mainly (& sometimes for traffic)
5. When I check traffic, I use Google Maps in a web browser instead
6. When I look up POIs, I simply clipboard the coordinates it finds
7. Then I paste those coordinate into any desired offline map program
8. The two I use most are MapFactor Navigator (older ad free versions)
and OSMAnd~ (which is the one on F-Droid mimicking GP OSMAnd+).

For _backcountry_ hiking, it's a completely different story IMHO.
9. Google topo maps suck in my humble opinion, compared to USGS maps.
<https://store.usgs.gov/map-locator>
10. OSM topo maps also suck, IMHO, compared to the 1:24000 USGS maps.
<http://www.gmaptool.eu/en/content/usa-osm-topo-routable>

Thank you for adding value to the topic we're discussing on this ng.
--
BTW, I make my own electronic routable backcountry maps when I need to.
I even wrote tutorials on how to make your own electronic routable maps
using Avenza based on instructions provided on the USGS web site.
<https://www.avenzamaps.com/vendor/3967/usgs-api>
<https://www.avenzamaps.com/vendor/804/united-states-geological-survey/>
<https://www.avenzamaps.com/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Avenza>

VanguardLH

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Jul 7, 2021, 7:01:46 PM7/7/21

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paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Your use model is different than my use model where both have their place.
> I aim for privacy. You aim for POI accuracy.

I gave a POI example. I have also seen OSM show roads that don't exist.
Someone decided to issue city plats to OSM to show roads; however, the
plats depict not just what already exist, but also what are planned, but
plans change. Submitting city plat data can result in listing roads
that don't yet exist, and may never exist.

I remember when on a vacation in Florida that Maps.ME told me to take a
right from the highway (after telling me to take an exit ramp onto
another highway) to go to Kissimmee. It was, as best as I could tell
without actually going that way, a logging road into a swamp. I didn't
feel like feeding the alligators. It might've been planned for a road,
but it wasn't yet.

I was using some OSM map app which told me to take a side road (a
through street) instead of the highway. Turns out that the city decided
to build a park which blocked the road. I later found out the residents
had complained about that main road (was before the highway got built)
getting a lot of traffic of folks, like me, that would take that old
road, because sometimes I'm more interested in a nice drive than shaving
a minute from my drive time. They petitioned to get the park built to
block that road. What pissed me off is it is one of those federally
designated scenic travel routes, and remained that way despite the city
blocked the road, so you could no longer take a scenic drive on that
road.

I suspect some users think that submitting city plats is a quick boost
to get road data into the OSM map database. Bad move. Community driven
data means it gets out of date very fast if no one reports major changes
in a road.

paul

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Jul 7, 2021, 7:37:43 PM7/7/21

to

VanguardLH wrote on 07.07.2021 18:01

> I gave a POI example.

I agree that none of the freely available maps compare to Google in terms of
Points of Interest, where last I checked (years ago) the downloaded offline
Google Maps did contain those POIs.

In terms of privacy, if the downloaded Google Maps still have POIs embedded
in them, what I would do if I had a Google Account on my phone would be to
download the areas I care about and search them offline for various POIs.

My current road use model is to use either the web based Google Maps or the
Google Maps app itself to find the coordinates of the POI, and then I paste
those coordinates into offline routing apps such as OSMANd~ or the older APK
ad free MapFactor Navigator (although _many_ others exist for sure).
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=map%20navigation&c=apps>

For backcountry, I sometimes electronically draw the desired route on a topo
map and then I convert that route to a track while at the desktop PC and
then on the ground with the phone I can follow that track (I've written
tutorials on how to do that too) where it says directions like this):
"Head North 30 degrees for 50 feet (to regain your route)"

But I haven't done that in a while so we'd have to dig up the tutorial.

> I have also seen OSM show roads that don't exist.

Yup. I've had Google fix inaccuracies and I've seen even more road
inaccuracies in the OSM road maps. Google road maps are more accurate.

The topo maps for both Google and for OSM stink though compared to USGS.

USGS topo map downloads
https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-do-i-find-download-or-order-topographic-maps
https://gisgeography.com/download-usgs-topo-maps-free/
https://www.outdoors.org/resources/amc-outdoors/gear/how-to-add-usgs-topographic-maps-to-google-earth/

Google topo map downloads
https://ge-map-overlays.appspot.com/google-maps/terrain
https://www.ecoservecuador.com/single-post/2018/03/23/HOW-TO-DOWNLOAD-TOPOGRAPHIC-MAPS-FROM-GOOGLE-EARTH-Very-easy-method

OSM topo map downloads
https://data.maptiler.com/downloads/planet/

> Someone decided to issue city plats to OSM to show roads; however, the
> plats depict not just what already exist, but also what are planned, but
> plans change. Submitting city plat data can result in listing roads
> that don't yet exist, and may never exist.

https://www.askdifference.com/plot-vs-plat/

Out here, each county has their own GIS department who provides their maps
to everyone else, including Google. Ask me how I know this, as I had to get
_them_ to correct their maps also (they are the source of the maps that the
police and fire department use, for example, along with Google & others).

> I remember when on a vacation in Florida that Maps.ME told me to take a
> right from the highway (after telling me to take an exit ramp onto
> another highway) to go to Kissimmee. It was, as best as I could tell
> without actually going that way, a logging road into a swamp. I didn't
> feel like feeding the alligators. It might've been planned for a road,
> but it wasn't yet.

All of us who have been using the computer based and then handheld based
mapping from Garmin and Magellin and Copilot and Delorme over the decades
have a few stories like that!

What amazed me, when Google Maps first came out, was how much BETTER it was
than my Garmin nuvi in terms of POI and road accuracy. I never looked back.

> I was using some OSM map app which told me to take a side road (a
> through street) instead of the highway. Turns out that the city decided
> to build a park which blocked the road. I later found out the residents
> had complained about that main road (was before the highway got built)
> getting a lot of traffic of folks, like me, that would take that old
> road, because sometimes I'm more interested in a nice drive than shaving
> a minute from my drive time. They petitioned to get the park built to
> block that road. What pissed me off is it is one of those federally
> designated scenic travel routes, and remained that way despite the city
> blocked the road, so you could no longer take a scenic drive on that
> road.

Out here, especially to block beach traffic, they _change_ the roadways over
the weekend so that the beach crowd doesn't take a shortcut through town.

The unfortunate thing is that they block everyone, not just the beach
traffic, which means even residents are inconvenienced by these detours.

This stuff shows up on Waze & Google Maps since it's all planned ahead so
the towns communicate with the powers that be who write the routing software
(according to the local news, as I recall).

> I suspect some users think that submitting city plats is a quick boost
> to get road data into the OSM map database. Bad move. Community driven
> data means it gets out of date very fast if no one reports major changes
> in a road.

Dunno how good this is but you can check if it has plat maps for your area.
https://www.platmaps.org/
--
The Android newsgroup shares ideas and solutions among intelligent people.

Bob F

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Jul 8, 2021, 12:25:49 AM7/8/21

to

I want to thank Paul and VanguardLH for this great discussion in regards
to my question. I have read everything so far once.

I was quite happy with the Google Maps app for the last couple years,
but now they have changed things that are definitely making me rethink
that choice. You have given me a lot of info about the alternatives to
consider, which will take me some time.

Paul, you keep saying you are using an old version of the Mapfactor app.
Can you say which version that is?

Another question about my "login" problem with Google maps. It does not
give me a way to login, which I assume means I have to use either the
gmail or email app included with the phone. I tried logging into a gmail
account with K9, but that did nothing to help.

VanguardLH

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Jul 8, 2021, 11:36:29 AM7/8/21

to

paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote
>

>> Someone decided to issue city plats to OSM to show roads; however,
>> the plats depict not just what already exist, but also what are
>> planned, but plans change. Submitting city plat data can result in
>> listing roads that don't yet exist, and may never exist.
>
> https://www.askdifference.com/plot-vs-plat/

When have you ever looked at a city plat that did not identify roads?
That a property ID has been defined does not mandate there be a road
yet, but the plat is likely to show a proposed road. Plats have roads,
but the roads may not exist.

There is a concrete company close to a buddy's house. The plat showed
their property ID, the road to the south, but also showed a road on the
west; however, that west-side road didn't exist until 12 years later.
My buddy had his own dirt road to his home coming from the south-side
road, and 12 years later the city or county decided to build a real
north-south road (tarvy) on the west side of the concrete plant. That
also increased noise from the trucks from the concrete company that
could then use a gate to that west-side road instead of using their
south gate to the much busier south-side road. That the west-side road
didn't exist until 12 years after the issue date of the plat my buddy
got when he started building his home (and I helped) didn't stop the
road from showing up in the plat before the road existed.

VanguardLH

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Jul 8, 2021, 11:41:48 AM7/8/21

to

Just to be sure, is there a Google account defined on your phone? For
me, the nav path is:

[Android] Settings -> General -> Accounts

Alas, the same e-mail address may be shown for separate accounts. For
example, my Adobe account shows my Gmail address as does my Google
account, as in:

<AdobeIcon> <myGmail> Adobe
<GoogleIcon> <myGmail> Google

You want to see if there is one for Google.

Another question: Do you actually have a Google account (into which you
can login)?

Joerg Lorenz

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Jul 8, 2021, 11:46:56 AM7/8/21

to

Am 06.07.21 um 20:10 schrieb Bob F:

I did not encounter this issue on my Pixel 4 with Android 11.
Google maps has no access to my contacts.

paul

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Jul 8, 2021, 11:49:25 AM7/8/21

to

Bob F wrote on 08.07.2021 05:25

> I want to thank Paul and VanguardLH for this great discussion in regards
> to my question. I have read everything so far once.

And I, for one, would like to thank you as I wasn't even aware that contacts
were _required_ to be uploaded to Google for its "Maps" app to save offline
maps.

Given I don't even put my contacts in the default location, nor do I even
have a Google Account set up on my phone, I wouldn't be aware of this.

The only solutions I can think of, given contacts upload is required, is
a. Wipe out your contacts (as I do) & then choose sms/phone apps which
have the ability to import/export their own app-specific contacts db
b. Or, don't download offline Google Maps (which is also what I do).

Since I don't have the phone set to any accounts, let alone a Google
Account, I wouldn't be able to download offline maps anyway in the current
version of Google Maps (it used to allow downloads even without an account).

Also, the only permission Google Maps really needs to work online is access
to your location while in use, which is the _only_ permission I allot it.

In addition, _never_ allow the Google Maps app to turn the location on, as
Google Maps turns on sleazy settings (which upload data to the mother ship)
which _none_ of the maps apps actually need, so always turn on location
using any other method than the special "gsm" activities that the "Maps" app
uses. (If you do accidentally use the Google Maps button to turn on
location, then set up a separate "activity" shortcut to turn it off
instantly, which is what I do, in addition to setting a default mock
location so that I have time to rectify the problem before it's too late).

All this has been covered in gory detail in other recent threads, so I won't
list them specifically above except to let you & the others know they exist.

> I was quite happy with the Google Maps app for the last couple years,
> but now they have changed things that are definitely making me rethink
> that choice. You have given me a lot of info about the alternatives to
> consider, which will take me some time.

Thank you for bringing up your point of view so that we can all learn more.

The _only_ thing Google Maps does that nobody else does as well, is the POI
lookup is fantastically accurate compared to all others. Once you have the
coordinates of the POI in the clipboard, _any_ map app will get you there.

Of course, Google spoken directions are also fantastic, but you'll mainly
only need their increased spoken-direction accuracy (e.g., what turn lanes
to use) in times of high routing stress (e.g., when in an unfamiliar city
with heavy traffic and perhaps with a time constraint on mistakes).

The other thing Google Maps does well is traffic but it turns out that
traffic is even better (IMHO) seen using a web browser set to the area of
concern (I use a desktop shortcut for that purpose) so that the routing and
traffic are both visualized in separate apps.

In addition, _plenty_ of government and safety-based agencies (thousands of
them) abound for traffic, many of which (e.g., 511.org & sigalert) give
_more_ detailed information than does Google Maps on the root cause of
unexpected traffic jams (e.g., accidents or construction).

Here's a screenshot of my maps folder for an idea of what I use daily.
https://i.postimg.cc/NfsF7n4H/maps04.jpg

And here's a screenshot of another of my maps folders on another phone.
https://i.postimg.cc/CMmSsgtN/maps01.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/vZmTvPZx/maps02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/2y2zKzwB/maps03.jpg

> Paul, you keep saying you are using an old version of the Mapfactor app.
> Can you say which version that is?

Thanks for that question as I didn't even _look_ which version I was using.

The version is a good question to ask, as all of us on Android automatically
_save_ all our APKs even _before_ we install the app (the free Google Play
client that I use has a switch for _not deleting_ the APK after it installs
the app, as we've covered many times in the past - which is a switch I
suggest _everyone_ use since you'll _never_ lose an APK when you do that).

Each of these APKs is then copied over to a master archive (either on hard
disk, USB sticks, or it's kept on the sdcard, at your convenience).

Looking at that archive, here's what I am using since I populated my entire
phone from the apps that I had downloaded on my previous phones (which is
yet again one of the umpteen things we do day in and day out on Android
which are impossible with iOS). It's version 5.5.85 (5005085 12/3/2019).
https://i.postimg.cc/FFYqg9Dv/maps05.jpg

If you use Adblock, you probably won't see any ads even if you use the
latest MapFactor Navigator (maybe even NetGuard will block the ads if you
use the optional hosts file capability - again - these being system wide
capabilities unavailable on my iOS devices that I use every single day).

BTW, I admit openly that I'm no good with explaining which apps have ads and
which apps don't have ads as I _never_ see an ad on Android (only on iOS do
I ever see ads), even as I must have some of my seven hundred installed apps
that must be _trying_ to show ads to me.

Mainly I use a Google Play free client that has a persistent filter to
filter out apps with ads, but when I must loosen the filter, even _then_ I
don't see ads (due to the ad blockers I installed when I first set up my
unrooted phone).

> Another question about my "login" problem with Google maps. It does not
> give me a way to login, which I assume means I have to use either the
> gmail or email app included with the phone.

Hmmmmmmmmm...... I think you said you, like I, do _not_ have a Google
Account set up on the phone, right?

So I should be able to _test_ what you're seeing, with the only difference
being perhaps that I've downgraded all my Google apps that I couldn't
actually delete to either be inactivated or, if they couldn't be
inactivated, I downgraded them to their original factory version (although
my phone is only a few months old, so that's a relatively new factory
version unfortunately).

When I just now used either the Google Maps web browser shortcut or the
Google Maps app on my phone, it allowed me to route from anywhere (including
my current spoofed location if desired) to anywhere else _without_ needing
to log in.

But, when I started the process, Google Maps _did_ give me an option to
create an account by optionally asking "Sign in to save your searches",
which, when I press, it then asks me to "Add account" since I don't have one
set up.

> I tried logging into a gmail account with K9, but that did nothing to help.

The _good_ thing about the many free mail user agents (MUAs) on Android is
they don't pull the sneaky trick that the GMail App does of sleazily
_adding_ a new account to the phone (and uploading all your contacts to
Google without asking!).

As such, _none_ of these should be adding an account to Android (AFAIK).

In summary, thanks for asking your question, from which we all learned.
--
Usenet smartphone ng users can discuss these things as adults to learn
from each other, and to share knowledge that they've learned themselves.

Ken Hart

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Jul 8, 2021, 12:31:31 PM7/8/21

to

Are you sure?

What does your Pixel 4 with Android 11 say when you press Android
"Settings" & then "Apps" & then "Maps" & then "Permissions" & then
it provides a list of what's "Allowed" versus what's "Denied" there?
--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com

paul

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Jul 8, 2021, 12:43:54 PM7/8/21

to

VanguardLH wrote on 08.07.2021 11:41

> Just to be sure, is there a Google account defined on your phone?

While this question is posted to the OP, I can help out a bit...

Since we're all helping each other, and since the answer to Vanguard's
question is binary, where half of us might have a Google Account set up on
the phone while the other half might not have a Google Account set up on the
phone, here's what I get with my setup, which has no Google Account on the
phone.

The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
<https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>

I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>

The Google Maps app even saves _recent_ searches (despite claiming it won't)
but if you want _all_ your searches saved, you need to log in, which, if you
don't have an account set up on the phone, then it will ask to create one.
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>

However, _never_ allow the Google Maps app to turn on Location because
I've tested this thoroughly and it turns on sleazy settings that no
other mapping app turns on (to my knowledge, which I've tested)!
<https://i.postimg.cc/pry6PVvb/maps08.jpg>

> Another question: Do you actually have a Google account
> (into which you can login)?

Again, I understand this is posed to the OP, but I can help out by saying I
don't think it matters whether or not a Google Account exists, since, for
the purpose of the phone, it doesn't exist until/unless the user does
something "stupid", which I'll define as either...
a. Setting up the phone to have a Google Account, or,
b. Logging into the GMail app even just once (since it _adds_ an account),
c. Or, logging into a variety of other Google apps which do the same thing.

Most Google apps should work fine _without_ needing a Google Account
(I think only the GMail app and the Google Voice app need an account).

But they'll all give you an option to _create_ an account, that's for sure!
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>
--
Usenet is supposed to be all about helpful adults helping each other by
purposefully helpfully providing advice and suggestions for all to benefit.

paul

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Jul 8, 2021, 12:57:38 PM7/8/21

to

VanguardLH wrote on 08.07.2021 17:36

> When have you ever looked at a city plat that did not identify roads?
> That a property ID has been defined does not mandate there be a road
> yet, but the plat is likely to show a proposed road. Plats have roads,
> but the roads may not exist.

Thank you for your added information about the city plats, which I believe
you have far more experience with than I do.

I've only dealt with them when I needed the assessor to talk to the GIS guy
who needed to change _his_ maps, which then the local police and fire use.

It took only a few months but when I finally flagged down a law enforcement
car a few months after asking the GIS guys to talk to the assessors office,
they showed their electronic maps had been corrected (they don't use paper
maps anymore in emergency vehicles).

They told me Google gets those local GIS maps which by now Google should
have also, as should most of the other mapping outfits, where my point is my
only experience with this stuff is when I had to get the assessor to talk to
the GIS guy.

In summary, apparently _all_ those who get their maps from the local
authorities don't get them from the assessor but from the GIS team but the
GIS team gets _their_ information from the assessor's office.

That's my _only_ experience with this stuff, where I concede easily that
your experience is clearly far greater than that one incident of mine.

So I thank you for adding your information which helps me and others learn.

By the way, back on the original technical topic, I dug up some of my old
screenshots when I last tested downloading of offline maps in the Google
Maps app, where this older version of Google Maps had a button for "Offline
Maps" even if I didn't have an account set up on the phone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg> Google Offline Maps GUI

The _older_ Google Maps GUI allowed you to get so far as to hit a few
buttons to select the offline map tile of your choice... but...
<https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg> Requires Google login

Given I didn't have an account, it wouldn't allow a sign in:
<https://i.postimg.cc/WbB1JqLP/offline03.jpg> Requires Google Account

Notice the _newer_ versions of Google Maps now has a more graceful interface
where it _knows_ there is no account set up on the phone, so it asks to
create that account (which I'd have to be a fool to do, of course).

<https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>

I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>

And now, it's more graceful in _asking_ for an account to be added
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>

However, I recommend users _never_ allow the Google Maps app to turn on

Location because I've tested this thoroughly and it turns on sleazy

settings that no other mapping app turns on (to my knowledge).
<https://i.postimg.cc/pry6PVvb/maps08.jpg>
--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults discuss topics of interest
so that all of us learn from each others' shared related experiences.

Bob F

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Jul 8, 2021, 4:50:10 PM7/8/21

to

On 7/8/2021 9:44 AM, paul wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote on 08.07.2021 11:41
>> Just to be sure, is there a Google account defined on your phone?

No.

>
> While this question is posted to the OP, I can help out a bit...
>
> Since we're all helping each other, and since the answer to Vanguard's
> question is binary, where half of us might have a Google Account set up on
> the phone while the other half might not have a Google Account set up on the
> phone, here's what I get with my setup, which has no Google Account on the
> phone.
>
> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>

And it works fine for me if WiFi is on. Mobil Data never is.

>
> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>

Ditto.

>
> The Google Maps app even saves _recent_ searches (despite claiming it won't)
> but if you want _all_ your searches saved, you need to log in, which, if you
> don't have an account set up on the phone, then it will ask to create one.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>
>
> However, _never_ allow the Google Maps app to turn on Location because
> I've tested this thoroughly and it turns on sleazy settings that no
> other mapping app turns on (to my knowledge, which I've tested)!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/pry6PVvb/maps08.jpg>
>
>> Another question: Do you actually have a Google account
>> (into which you can login)?

Multiple.

>
> Again, I understand this is posed to the OP, but I can help out by saying I
> don't think it matters whether or not a Google Account exists, since, for
> the purpose of the phone, it doesn't exist until/unless the user does
> something "stupid", which I'll define as either...
> a. Setting up the phone to have a Google Account, or,
> b. Logging into the GMail app even just once (since it _adds_ an account),
> c. Or, logging into a variety of other Google apps which do the same thing.
>
> Most Google apps should work fine _without_ needing a Google Account
> (I think only the GMail app and the Google Voice app need an account).

Google maps did not until recently for me. Now, it will not download
offline maps.

>
> But they'll all give you an option to _create_ an account, that's for sure!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>

Press the Add account in Google maps, the box goes away. Nothing else
happens.

>

Joerg Lorenz

unread,

Jul 8, 2021, 5:01:19 PM7/8/21

to

Am 08.07.21 um 18:31 schrieb Ken Hart:

> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> I did not encounter this issue on my Pixel 4 with Android 11.
>> Google maps has no access to my contacts.
>
> Are you sure?
>
> What does your Pixel 4 with Android 11 say when you press Android
> "Settings" & then "Apps" & then "Maps" & then "Permissions" & then
> it provides a list of what's "Allowed" versus what's "Denied" there?

Only permitted access is "Standort" (=location).
All other accesses are denied.

In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.

Bob F

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Jul 8, 2021, 5:01:35 PM7/8/21

to

"+ add account"

>
> Alas, the same e-mail address may be shown for separate accounts. For
> example, my Adobe account shows my Gmail address as does my Google
> account, as in:
>
> <AdobeIcon> <myGmail> Adobe
> <GoogleIcon> <myGmail> Google
>
> You want to see if there is one for Google.
>
> Another question: Do you actually have a Google account (into which you
> can login)?

Multiple. But I don't want my phone turning on wifi to access them
unless I tell it to. I use K9 for email because it understands that.

I use my phone for occasional phone calls or texts. Usually a few a week
at most. I want the battery to need as little charging as possible for
MY usage. I have only used mobile data a few times for testing purposes,
which costs me 5 cents a Mb.

>

Bob F

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Jul 8, 2021, 5:21:55 PM7/8/21

to

The funny thing about that is the "add account" just goes away if I
touch it, without taking me to aa "add account" page.

Bob F

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Jul 8, 2021, 5:30:32 PM7/8/21

to

I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
has stopped".

VanguardLH

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Jul 8, 2021, 9:03:55 PM7/8/21

to

paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote
>

>> Just to be sure, is there a Google account defined on your phone?
>

> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>

Without ever creating a Google account when you got your new phone to
configure it, have you yet saved offline maps using the Google Maps app?
That was what the OP complained about: saving offline maps prompted for
a permission (to contacts). Are you saving offline maps in the Google
Maps app?

> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>

But have you saved offline maps?

> The Google Maps app even ...

But have you saved offline maps? And with the latest version of the
Google Maps app as presumably that is what the OP has?

VanguardLH

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Jul 8, 2021, 9:09:35 PM7/8/21

to

Hmm, sounds like troubleshooting time. One would be to go into
Android's settings on apps, select Google Maps, go to storage, clear the
cache, and also clear the app's data (you'll get prompted to allow
that). Restart the phone and check how the Maps app behaves now. If
that doesn't help, uninstall the Maps app, and reinstall it.

Joerg Lorenz

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Jul 9, 2021, 2:46:56 AM7/9/21

to

Am 08.07.21 um 23:30 schrieb Bob F:

I do not use offline maps.
The data consumption of Maps is so low I always use it online to have
*always* the newest route and traffic information.
To give you an example: The 500 mile-ride from my place to the Côte
d'Azur in Sothern France used 60 MB.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz

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Jul 9, 2021, 2:52:58 AM7/9/21

to

Am 09.07.21 um 03:09 schrieb VanguardLH:

> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
>> offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
>> button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
>> has stopped".
>
> Hmm, sounds like troubleshooting time. One would be to go into
> Android's settings on apps, select Google Maps, go to storage, clear the
> cache, and also clear the app's data (you'll get prompted to allow
> that). Restart the phone and check how the Maps app behaves now. If
> that doesn't help, uninstall the Maps app, and reinstall it.

That would also be my next step. The old data should also be deleted.
That should help also in the case of offline maps.

Maps does not need access to contacts. Neither on Android nor on iOS.

paul

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:06:59 AM7/9/21

to

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 08.07.2021 21:01

*Jeorg Lorenz lied.*

Bear in mind for anyone responding to Joerg Lorenz is that he's stupid.
Even if he didn't lie, he's too stupid to know if his contacts are accessed.

The whole point is that the OP wanted to _download_ offline maps, and, for
that, Google Maps' access to contacts is, apparently required (AFAICT).

So, please, do not waste any of your time responding to Joerg Lorenz.
He lied.

Joerg is too stupid to realize this, so don't waste your time with him.
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. (these people lie because they're ashamed of the facts)

paul

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:10:14 AM7/9/21

to

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 08:46

> I do not use offline maps.

In other words, *Joerg lied* and, worse, he's too stupid to realize that the
entire point is that offline maps requires an account which requires
contacts to be accessed.

It's bothersome that people as stupid as Joerg even exist, let alone that
they lie given his contacts were _clearly_ accessed (he lied about them).

Anyone discussing this with Joerg Lorenz is wasting their time as he's too
stupid to realized his contacts _are_ being accessed by Google.

Joerg lied about it.

--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,

et al. (these people are too stupid to even bother dealing with)

Joerg Lorenz

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:11:51 AM7/9/21

to

Am 08.07.21 um 23:30 schrieb Bob F:

> I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
> offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
> button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
> has stopped".

Just for the sake of it I downloaded my regional offline-map. Maps did
not ask for the permission for additional access to anything.

Delete the app and delete all connected data and reinstall Maps after a
restart of the device.

paul

unread,

Jul 9, 2021, 3:15:52 AM7/9/21

to

Bob F wrote on 08.07.2021 22:50

>> Most Google apps should work fine _without_ needing a Google Account
>> (I think only the GMail app and the Google Voice app need an account).
>
> Google maps did not until recently for me. Now, it will not download
> offline maps.

That has been my experience also.

Google has changed what's required for online maps _many_ times over the
years, as I believe I'm the first person who reported it even exists (long
ago).

>> But they'll all give you an option to _create_ an account, that's for sure!
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>
>
> Press the Add account in Google maps, the box goes away. Nothing else
> happens.

Mine goes to "Checking info" and then "Sign in or create account" when I
press the plus button next to "Add account".

But it doesn't really matter since the point is that currently, you can't
save an offline map using Google Maps unless you log in, and once you log
in, it insists on uploading your contacts (as far as I can tell).

Luckily, offline maps don't do much if you've already got an offline
navigation program such as MapFactor Navigator or OSMAnd~ (or equivalent).

--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,

et al. (these apologists turn every thread into their own cesspool).

paul

unread,

Jul 9, 2021, 3:23:01 AM7/9/21

to

VanguardLH wrote on 09.07.2021 03:03

>> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>
>
> Without ever creating a Google account when you got your new phone to
> configure it, have you yet saved offline maps using the Google Maps app?
> That was what the OP complained about: saving offline maps prompted for
> a permission (to contacts). Are you saving offline maps in the Google
> Maps app?

My experience is exactly the same, apparently, as that of the OP, where his
experiences mirror mine... which is the same that would happen, as far as I
can tell, to _anyone_ who doesn't set their Android OS to a google account.

>> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>
>
> But have you saved offline maps?

As I have said many times, it can't be done currently without logging into a
Google Account, which I refuse to do (for privacy reasons). Of course, if I
log into a Google Account, it will save the offline maps, but the whole
point is to _not_ log into a Google Account.

There's an added complications that "some_ programs (such as Google Gmail
and Google Voice) will automatically _create_ an account on the phone in the
Android operating system, but I didn't test whether Google Maps is one of
those programs that automatically creates a Google Account on the phone
merely by the process of logging into the Google app.

I'll leave that exercise for others to test who care more about whether the
Google Maps app _creates_ a Google Account on the phone merely by the
process of logging into a google account using the Google Maps app.

>> The Google Maps app even ...
>
> But have you saved offline maps? And with the latest version of the
> Google Maps app as presumably that is what the OP has?

Vanguard... I'm the one who _first_ reported that Google Maps could be saved
offline to this newsgroup, years ago.

I was using the offline maps for _years_ and I have _many_ tutorials on the
topic if you simply search, where I also reported the 29/30 day iOS/Android
update requirements (many times).

As I said many times, in the past, Google Maps allowed you to save offline
maps _without_ logging into a Google Account, but currently, in my tests,
you must log into a Google Account to save offline maps. Period.

What are you trying to get at with your line of questioning that you can't
test yourself? My results mirror that of the OP who has a similar setup.

What are you trying to figure out that you can't test for yourself?
--
I'm not willing to log into Google Maps just to test this out given the OP
can do that himself if that's what he wants to do.

paul

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:27:08 AM7/9/21

to

Bob F wrote on 08.07.2021 23:01

> Multiple. But I don't want my phone turning on wifi to access them
> unless I tell it to. I use K9 for email because it understands that.
>
> I use my phone for occasional phone calls or texts. Usually a few a week
> at most. I want the battery to need as little charging as possible for
> MY usage. I have only used mobile data a few times for testing purposes,
> which costs me 5 cents a Mb.

There are a ton of apps which manage your wifi and cellular data.

You might want to consider the NetGuard app which will allow you to prevent
any given app from using cellular data or wi-fi Internet on an app-by-app
basis. <https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard>

The Google Play version does everything but the ad blocking part, I think.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.netguard>

It doesn't require rooting.

Joerg Lorenz

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:27:42 AM7/9/21

to

Am 09.07.21 um 09:10 schrieb paul:

> Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 08:46
>> I do not use offline maps.
>
> In other words, *Joerg lied* and, worse, he's too stupid to realize that the
> entire point is that offline maps requires an account which requires
> contacts to be accessed.

I have an account with Google. But there is nothing because my contacts
are managed and synced with iCloud. I repeat: Maps has no access to
contacts. It is that simple.

> It's bothersome that people as stupid as Joerg even exist, let alone that
> they lie given his contacts were _clearly_ accessed (he lied about them).
>
> Anyone discussing this with Joerg Lorenz is wasting their time as he's too
> stupid to realized his contacts _are_ being accessed by Google.

You urgently need a *SHRINK*

paul

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:33:45 AM7/9/21

to

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 09:27

>> In other words, *Joerg lied* and, worse, he's too stupid to realize that the
>> entire point is that offline maps requires an account which requires
>> contacts to be accessed.
>
> I have an account with Google. But there is nothing because my contacts
> are managed and synced with iCloud. I repeat: Maps has no access to
> contacts. It is that simple.

Joerg,
I know what your phone is doing better than you do, because you're stupid.
And besides, you lied.

*We all know you lied.*
But even worse, you're too stupid to know Google has your contacts.

People like you who are as stupid as you are, actually bother me you exist.
It shouldn't be possible for people as stupid as you are to even exist.

Go away and infest the apple newsgroups please.

--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,

et al. (these people are all too stupid to know what their phone does)

paul

unread,

Jul 9, 2021, 3:36:26 AM7/9/21

to

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 09:11

> Just for the sake of it I downloaded my regional offline-map. Maps did
> not ask for the permission for additional access to anything.
>
> Delete the app and delete all connected data and reinstall Maps after a
> restart of the device.

Jesus Christ.

Stop fabricating imaginary functionality Joerg.
You're going to send people on fruitless wild-goose chases by saying this.

You lied.
We all know you lied.

You're too stupid to realize what your phone is doing, Joerg.

Please stop making this shit up just because you're too stupid to know what
your own phone is doing.

Show us a screenshot, for example, of your Google Maps permissions.
You won't.

I know what's on your phone better than you do Joerg.
It irks me that people as stupid as you are can even exist in this world.

Go away please.

--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,

et al. (these people strain credularity by being shockingly stupid)

Joerg Lorenz

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:48:06 AM7/9/21

to

Am 09.07.21 um 09:07 schrieb paul:

> Joerg Lorenz wrote on 08.07.2021 21:01

>> In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
>> apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.
>
> *Jeorg Lorenz lied.*
>
> Bear in mind for anyone responding to Joerg Lorenz is that he's stupid.
> Even if he didn't lie, he's too stupid to know if his contacts are accessed.

We had a very specific point in the discussion. You missed it like
always. But that is not a surprise. Maps has only access to Location.
Full stop.

That Android is data hog is known. This is also the reason why Android
is so inferior to iOS with professional users. Google is misusing its
position for years. But antitrust authorities will soon change that.

sms

unread,

Jul 9, 2021, 11:27:45 AM7/9/21

to

On 7/6/2021 9:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

<snip>

> Don't use the Google Maps apps if you don't like Google's requirements
> or the behavior of their map app. While I do use the Google Maps app, I
> also use the HERE maps app which lets me download offline map data by
> region (city, state, country) rather than have me use their online
> service to define a region and then download the map data for the
> user-specified region. I have an SD card, so that is where I store the
> offline map data for both map apps. I like HERE's regional boundaries
> for offline maps since I could easily travel outside the user-specified
> region in the Google Maps app. HERE's offline maps can cover far larger
> areas than what Google lets you pre-select.

I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
have to plan ahead to download them in sections.

When I'm traveling outside the U.S., where high-speed data usage can be
expensive, I use programs like CoPilot or OSMAnd where the maps are
stored on the phone. You can download entire countries. It takes a lot
of storage space, but on an Android phone with a MicroSD card slot this
is of little concern. Of course with offline maps you lose a lot of what
makes Waze and Google Maps so nice, real-time traffic information, road
hazard notification, etc.

In the U.S. I was a big fan of offline mapping apps like Copilot and
OSMAnd back when data was a lot more expensive than it is now. Now, data
usage of little concern (on my Verizon MVNO four of us share 100GB per
month for under $100 and we've never exceeded even 50% of that 100GB).

There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
then offline maps are good to have. In the western U.S. there are vast
geographic areas where one carrier doesn't have coverage even on many
highways. Even on AT&T and Verizon there are some areas of Nevada and
Utah (along U.S. 50) where I found patches of no coverage last month,
though Waze does automatically download sufficient map data to cover
gaps, though I don't know what those limits are.

My view is that if you're giving up real-time traffic information and
using offline maps, whether to not use data, or because of a lack of
coverage, that you're better off using something other than Google maps.
YMMV.

paul

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Jul 9, 2021, 12:59:27 PM7/9/21

to

sms wrote on 09.07.2021 17:27

> I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
> have to plan ahead to download them in sections.

I agree the offline Google Maps takes planning ahead of time to download.
<https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg>

Worse, last I had tested them thoroughly, they expired rather quickly.

And, when I first tested them, you couldn't even organize your tiles.
(Although tile management of offline maps got better over time, IMHO.)

Last I tested offline Google maps (admittedly a while ago, as I gave up on
them due to the nonsense involved in constantly having to update them), I
could at least download them without logging into a Google Account.

Now you can't even do that.
<https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg>

> When I'm traveling outside the U.S., where high-speed data usage can be
> expensive, I use programs like CoPilot or OSMAnd where the maps are
> stored on the phone. You can download entire countries. It takes a lot
> of storage space, but on an Android phone with a MicroSD card slot this
> is of little concern.

Agreed that in today's modern phones, with _huge_ sdcards, the size of the
map downloads matters not the least bit (many have over 512GB of storage).

> Of course with offline maps you lose a lot of what
> makes Waze and Google Maps so nice, real-time traffic information, road
> hazard notification, etc.

The problem with Waze, last I checked, is you need to log into it.

The Android Google Maps app doesn't need a login for traffic.
Neither does a static web page set up for any given area of traffic.

In addition, I listed in another thread _hundreds_ of apps which give free
real time traffic around the world _without_ needing to log into anything.

These apps (e.g., 511.org & sigalert) provide real time traffic cameras, and
real time police reports, and real time accident & road closure details.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=511%20traffic&c=apps>

All of these, combined, means that there is never a need for Google Maps,
although I do readily admit Google Maps is almost as good as it can get.

> In the U.S. I was a big fan of offline mapping apps like Copilot and
> OSMAnd back when data was a lot more expensive than it is now. Now, data
> usage of little concern (on my Verizon MVNO four of us share 100GB per
> month for under $100 and we've never exceeded even 50% of that 100GB).

I agree that "back in the day" when I had data blocks (on AT&T for example),
it mattered a lot to use offline road map apps, but now, everyone in the USA
with any data plan has full unlimited high speed (including 5G) data.

So, like you, I find no need, currently, to limit the amount of data used by
any apps, although it's still nice to have free no-root apps like NetGuard
which limit any given app to either Wi-Fi or cellular data (or neither).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.netguard>

> There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
> going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
> then offline maps are good to have.

I used to anonymously scrape the Google Map POI db using "addresstogps" but
Google killed that wonderful service long ago, although I see in a quick
doublecheck that plenty of apps _say_ they do this address to gps lookup.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=address%20to%20gps&c=apps>

What I do now, is anonymously look up an address in Google Maps app or, more
likely, in a browser shorcut set to the Google Maps web page, and once those
coordinates are in my clipboard, I can easily route using _any_ offline map
program.

I've tested _all_ the free offline map routing programs for the USA, where I
most prefer an older ad-free version of MapFactor Navigator for routing
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator>

Which is why I advocate auto saving APKs _before_ you install the app!
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFYqg9Dv/maps05.jpg>

Although plenty of people use the free ad free OSMAnd~ routing program:
<http://osmand.net/>

Note the F-Droid FOSS version is "more free" so to speak, than those.
<https://f-droid.org/forums/topic/osmand-vs-osmand/>

> In the western U.S. there are vast
> geographic areas where one carrier doesn't have coverage even on many
> highways. Even on AT&T and Verizon there are some areas of Nevada and
> Utah (along U.S. 50) where I found patches of no coverage last month,
> though Waze does automatically download sufficient map data to cover
> gaps, though I don't know what those limits are.

The problem with Waze, as I see it, is it requires a login just to work.
At least Google Maps (web site or app) doesn't require a login to work.
Neither do any of the good offline map routing programs.

For real time traffic, the thousands of sigalert & 511 apps work even
_better_ than do Google Maps for traffic because they provide real time
cameras, and real time construction, and detour information, and road
closure information, and even police reports which I use frequently.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=sigalert&c=apps>

> My view is that if you're giving up real-time traffic information and
> using offline maps, whether to not use data, or because of a lack of
> coverage, that you're better off using something other than Google maps.
> YMMV.

What you give up is your privacy when you use Waze.
You also give up privacy when you _log into_ Google Maps.
Although there are ways to preserve your privacy when you need to.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NfsF7n4H/maps04.jpg>

And, the Google Maps app won't work if you can't connect to the net
(unless you've downloaded the offline maps, and that takes planning).
<https://i.postimg.cc/WbB1JqLP/offline03.jpg>

Luckily, Google Maps is (almost) as good as it gets, even _without_ logging
into any Google account (either a web page shortcut or the Maps app itself).
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqYQXB7Y/shortcut14.jpg>

The _combination_ of Google Maps with offline maps (and often, if time is
critical, with sigalert/511 apps), is the cat's meow, in my humble opinion.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2y2zKzwB/maps03.jpg>

--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al.

Why do these dozen apologists brazenly deny what Apple is?
I don't know why.

I suspect they're ashamed & embarrassed Apple isn't what it says it is.

Chris Green

unread,

Jul 9, 2021, 1:33:03 PM7/9/21

to

paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> sms wrote on 09.07.2021 17:27
> > I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
> > have to plan ahead to download them in sections.
>
> I agree the offline Google Maps takes planning ahead of time to download.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg>
>
> Worse, last I had tested them thoroughly, they expired rather quickly.
>
> And, when I first tested them, you couldn't even organize your tiles.
> (Although tile management of offline maps got better over time, IMHO.)
>
> Last I tested offline Google maps (admittedly a while ago, as I gave up on
> them due to the nonsense involved in constantly having to update them), I
> could at least download them without logging into a Google Account.
>

It's one of the reasons I use Here Wego, off line maps in that work
very well. You download maps for the areas you want to travel around,
tell Here Wego to work off-line and that's it.

I use it in an ancient Android phone without a SIM, since I regularly
leave it on my 'bike by mistake that's a good idea! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

sms

unread,

Jul 9, 2021, 1:55:48 PM7/9/21

to

On 7/9/2021 10:21 AM, Chris Green wrote:

<snip>

> It's one of the reasons I use Here Wego, off line maps in that work
> very well. You download maps for the areas you want to travel around,
> tell Here Wego to work off-line and that's it.
>
> I use it in an ancient Android phone without a SIM, since I regularly
> leave it on my 'bike by mistake that's a good idea! :-)

On a bike, with a phone with no SIM, offline maps make a lot of sense.
You're not worried about traffic congestion or speed traps so the
real-time information is of limited importance.

On the other hand, Google Maps has done a great job when it comes to
bicycle routing since it includes bicycle-only infrastructure, and it
sometimes includes roads that are open to cyclists but not cars. For
example, in my area there are quite a few intersections where cars are
not allowed to go straight across. This is done to prevent cut-through
traffic into residential neighborhoods. But bicycles are allowed to go
straight. Google Maps usually knows about these when you choose a
bicycle as your mode of transport. We also have a lot of bike bridges
over freeways as well as a lot of multi-use paths that are more direct
than using roads (as well as not having stop signs or traffic lights).

Google is very responsive when you submit a report that points out an
error or omission in Google Maps.

VanguardLH

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Jul 9, 2021, 8:21:41 PM7/9/21

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I do have a Google account, and the app does login, so I cannot emulate
the situation.

It appears there has been a change from how the process was working
years ago. Things change. Google now wants you to login if you are
going to consume their bandwidth to download offline maps. Non-Google
users can do the online maps stuff.

VanguardLH

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Jul 9, 2021, 8:53:14 PM7/9/21

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sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Don't use the Google Maps apps if you don't like Google's
>> requirements or the behavior of their map app. While I do use the
>> Google Maps app, I also use the HERE maps app which lets me download
>> offline map data by region (city, state, country) rather than have
>> me use their online service to define a region and then download the
>> map data for the user-specified region. I have an SD card, so that
>> is where I store the offline map data for both map apps. I like
>> HERE's regional boundaries for offline maps since I could easily
>> travel outside the user-specified region in the Google Maps app.
>> HERE's offline maps can cover far larger areas than what Google lets
>> you pre-select.
>
> I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
> have to plan ahead to download them in sections.

And why I augment Google Maps with Here[wego] Maps. When vacationing, I
know where I'll be staying and the areas I will visit, but plans change,
and I could easily travel outside the pre-selected map area that got
downloaded for use offline. HERE maps let you select by city, state, or
country, or continent, so you can get some rather large maps; however,
bigger maps means more storage space, but luckily I added an SD card
that is far more than adequate to store offline maps for both Google
Maps and Here Maps.

If you're doing a road trip, like halfway across the country, offline
maps for Google Maps are useless unless you create many overlapping
offline maps along your planned route. With HERE, I can download all of
the North and Central America (7.2 GB), Africa (2 GB), Asia (7.6 GB),
Australia/Oceania (0.8 GB), Europe (12 GB), and South America (2.4 GB)
regions. As I recall, 128 GB is the largest sized SD card usable in my
phone, so that's what I got after getting the phone.

With all the gigabytes all those regions consume, and if you get them
all, I would suggest to make sure your phone is connected to a wifi
hotspot. Despite having a wifi connection, downloads can take a long
time because their server will throttle your connection to afford some
response to connections from other hosts.

Unlike some apps that let you select cellular+wifi or just wifi for
Internet connections, the HERE Maps doesn't have that option. So, you
need to make sure you have a wifi connection from your phone before
downloading those huge maps unless you happen to have unlimited data,
but that'll be slower than a wifi connection, so you'd be punished with
longer download times with cellular data.

> There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
> going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
> then offline maps are good to have.

Those commercials regarding coverage are misleading. They'll say "We
cover 99% of all users". That is NOT the same as 99% of the land mass.
Humans are not evenly distributed across the land mass.

There is also the problem that even in a "red" (high coverage) area in
their coverage maps, you may still not get a good connection. My area
is shows as red in the coverage maps of every cellular provider, yet
their towers are at the top of high hills, and I'm in a low river
valley. I'm lucky to get 3 signal bars, but going into the basement
barely gives me 1 bar, and most times less. When driving through
mountainous areas, connections come and go.

I'm still waiting for Tesla's scheme of using Earth as an antenna
(Wardenclyffe Tower) becomes a reality. No cell towers, no antenna
towers, no satellites, just your phone and that big clod of dirt.

nospam

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Jul 9, 2021, 9:55:55 PM7/9/21

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In article <1pmiemwfl2ez6$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH>
wrote:

>
> And why I augment Google Maps with Here[wego] Maps. When vacationing, I
> know where I'll be staying and the areas I will visit, but plans change,
> and I could easily travel outside the pre-selected map area that got
> downloaded for use offline. HERE maps let you select by city, state, or
> country, or continent, so you can get some rather large maps; however,
> bigger maps means more storage space, but luckily I added an SD card
> that is far more than adequate to store offline maps for both Google
> Maps and Here Maps.
>
> If you're doing a road trip, like halfway across the country, offline
> maps for Google Maps are useless unless you create many overlapping
> offline maps along your planned route. With HERE, I can download all of
> the North and Central America (7.2 GB), Africa (2 GB), Asia (7.6 GB),
> Australia/Oceania (0.8 GB), Europe (12 GB), and South America (2.4 GB)
> regions. As I recall, 128 GB is the largest sized SD card usable in my
> phone, so that's what I got after getting the phone.

if you're doing a road trip halfway across the country, you only need
half of that country, not the entire planet. you also only need areas
along the route, not parts you have no intentions of visiting.

you say that here maps has granularity as little as individual cities,
so the total amount to store won't be that much.

for devices with limited space, only the next day's worth of maps is
needed (or two days to be safe), which can be updated overnight at the
hotel or campground or wherever.

> With all the gigabytes all those regions consume, and if you get them
> all, I would suggest to make sure your phone is connected to a wifi
> hotspot. Despite having a wifi connection, downloads can take a long
> time because their server will throttle your connection to afford some
> response to connections from other hosts.
>
> Unlike some apps that let you select cellular+wifi or just wifi for
> Internet connections, the HERE Maps doesn't have that option.

the phone does.

> So, you
> need to make sure you have a wifi connection from your phone before
> downloading those huge maps unless you happen to have unlimited data,
> but that'll be slower than a wifi connection, so you'd be punished with
> longer download times with cellular data.

lte advanced (aka gigabit lte) and certainly 5g will be faster than
wifi in nearly every case.

very few people have gigabit internet and most phones couldn't take
full advantage of that even if they did.

using cellular will consume plan bandwidth, but it should only be a
couple of gig at the most, which is not a big deal.

sms

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Jul 9, 2021, 10:09:32 PM7/9/21

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The poorer carriers always use "users" when they do the percentage of
coverage. On a recent long road trip through California, Nevada,
Arizona, and Utah, even on rural roads, there was Verizon coverage most
of the time, though there were a few gaps with no coverage. AT&T had
similar coverage.

> There is also the problem that even in a "red" (high coverage) area in
> their coverage maps, you may still not get a good connection. My area
> is shows as red in the coverage maps of every cellular provider, yet
> their towers are at the top of high hills, and I'm in a low river
> valley. I'm lucky to get 3 signal bars, but going into the basement
> barely gives me 1 bar, and most times less. When driving through
> mountainous areas, connections come and go.

Actually I've had Verizon coverage in areas where their maps show no
coverage. They seem to be more conservative in their coverage maps than
I would have expected.

Bob F

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Jul 10, 2021, 1:15:49 AM7/10/21

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This is a recent change. I last downloaded a map probably less than a
month ago. I have not updated the maps app for a couple years.

I updated the map recently because the one I had, which was supposed to
be good for a year went away early. The new one was only good for a
month, which was the way it was up to a year or so ago. Now, I cannot
get an offline map at all.

Thanks again for all the info you have offered. I will try out
alternatives when I get a gap in summer projects.

Muhammad Akhtar Assi

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Sep 18, 2023, 9:15:54 PM9/18/23

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Google Maps on your phone may request access to your contacts for a couple of reasons, but these reasons may have evolved with subsequent updates to the app. Here are some possible explanations:

Sharing Locations: Google Maps allows you to share your real-time location with contacts. If you want to share your location with a friend, it may request access to your contacts so that you can easily select the contact with whom you want to share your location.

Saved Locations: Google Maps allows you to save locations, such as your home or work address, for easy navigation. Access to your contacts can help you associate saved locations with contacts' addresses, making it more convenient to navigate to these places when needed.

Recommendations: Google Maps might use your contacts to provide you with recommendations for places to visit based on where your contacts have been. For example, if a friend has visited a restaurant and shared their experience, the app may recommend that restaurant to you.

Emergency Services: In some cases, having access to your contacts could potentially assist with emergency services. For instance, if you're using Google Maps for navigation and need to call emergency services, the app may allow you to quickly select a contact or access your contacts for assistance.

Please note that app permissions and their purposes can change with updates, so it's essential to review the permissions requested by the app during installation or when they change. If you're concerned about privacy or don't want to grant certain permissions, you can often adjust app permissions in your phone's settings to limit what the app can access.

Keep in mind that while these were potential reasons for Google Maps to request access to your contacts as of my last update, the app's behavior may have changed since then. I recommend checking the app's permissions and any related release notes or privacy settings in the most recent version of Google Maps for the most accurate information.
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